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Post by George on Dec 22, 2004 20:16:47 GMT -5
Can someone tell me if there is a generally-accepted standard for deciding which sides of a coin are the obverse and reverse when there is no royal head or state arms on the coin?
I've always understood that the side with the ruler's head is the obverse, but obviously that does not apply to the coins from many countries.
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Post by shibolet on Dec 23, 2004 6:54:23 GMT -5
George,
As far as I have always understood it, the side which has the value noted is the obverse.
Chaim
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Post by George on Dec 23, 2004 19:43:03 GMT -5
Thanks Chaim - I will apply this principle for the USNS catalogue.
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Post by gkmac123 on Dec 24, 2004 9:20:54 GMT -5
Hello Chaim and George,
I understand the convention of obverse and reverse to be exactly the opposite to that of Chaim's understanding.
I believe these terms originated from either British or American numismatic experts. In both countries, the ruler or former ruler/president is always on one side of the coin and the denomination is on the other side. In all the coin books I have, including Krause's Standard Catalog of World Coins, the obverse is the side with the ruler on it and the reverse is the side with the denomination.
In fact, this obverse=ruler side convention probably goes back to how ancient (Roman, Greek, etc.) coins are classified and grouped, which is firstly by the name of the ruler (the side you "observe" first) and secondly by what was on the other side of the coin (hence the lesser "reverse" name for it).
Cheers, Greg
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Post by shibolet on Dec 25, 2004 3:29:02 GMT -5
Hi Greg & George,
We all agree with each other on the regal issues; it's the non-regal issues that cause the problem...
I checked my books and my confusion got even bigger...
I grew up in Israel, a country where the commemorative coins have the coin value AND the symbol of state AND the name of the country on the same side i.e. the obverse, while the subject of the coin ("commemorating... etc) was on the other i.e the reverse. This made determining the obverse & reverse easy. Because my collection started with a collection of Israeli coins I got used to describing the "value" side as obverse, having drawn this conclusion from the commemoratives of that country. (Check the description in the 2004 Krause of Israel KM#21... the symbol of state is clearly described as "reverse", while the value is on the "obverse").
My second collection, however, was of British issues and the first book I had on these was Seaby's 1972 catalogue (which I bought second-hand somewhere in the late seventies and still have, by the way). The description there is (I quote): "obverse: the side of the coin which normally shows the monarch's head". When describing the coins of monarchies I've always used this description. The head was the obverse, the symbol of state (often with the value) were the reverse.
But what if there's only a symbol of state, and no head? do we revert to "symbol of state" = obverse? why? how come a Danish (regal) coin has the arms on the reverse & a Singapore coin the arms on the obverse; doesn't it just confuse the issue?
The only feature which is constant in all coins except regal ones is the value (older regal coins often do not have a value) , making that the most important feature and thus in my eyes the "first" (ie obverse) feature. Even unifaced tokens have a value...
So a long time ago I decided to designate the value side as obverse for myself, except when the issues come from a monarchy. Possibly a wrong conclusion, but it makes my life easier...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS (HANUKKAH, CHRISTMAS, NEW YEAR ETC...)!!!
Chaim
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Post by gkmac123 on Dec 31, 2004 19:27:09 GMT -5
I see Chaim's dilemma.
I guess the only way to handle coins that have both the name of the country and the denomination on the same side is to do what Chaim did and call that side of the coin the "obverse" side. The "reverse", or lesser side, would be the side with the commemorative information on it.
The problem then becomes, what do you do with coins that have a ruler or former ruler on the side opposite to the side of the coin that has the name of both the country and denomination on it.
I think one possible solution to this dilemma would be to call the denomination/country name side the "reverse" side and the ruler side the "obverse" (i.e. my rule), but only if it is a regular issue that normally shows a ruler or former ruler on it. If the ruler is depicted on a non-regular issue, such as a commemorative piece, then the name of the country is more important and the denomination/country name side should be called the "obverse" (i.e. Chaim's rule).
Does this make any sense?
Cheers, Greg
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Post by OdedPaz on Jan 1, 2005 11:38:46 GMT -5
How about "one side" and the "other side" or "non-domination side" and "domination side"? ;D
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Post by gkmac123 on Jan 1, 2005 14:34:27 GMT -5
Oded, you are a genius!!! Why didn't the numismatic experts think of that? LOL!!! They (and sometimes me ) always try to over complicate things! Cheers, Greg
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Post by OdedPaz on Jan 1, 2005 16:03:16 GMT -5
One simple rule in life:
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid !!! ;D
Oded
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