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Post by knossos on Feb 5, 2005 14:12:48 GMT -5
Hello All:
In the February pricelist of Lauren Benson there are a couple nice Order of Malta coins being offered;
* NM18 25 Liras 2004 Pope John Paul II silver proof in capsule for $17.50
* NM19 500 Liras 2004 Pope John Paul II 14mm gold in capsule for $ 55
Although most of Mr. Benson's coins are of standard KM variety he does often have exceptional "unrecognised states" issues.
For price list, his contact information is;
Lauren Benson PO Box 9 Bettendorf, Iowa 52772 email; bensoncoins@revealed.net
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CEDRO
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by CEDRO on Mar 9, 2005 14:26:55 GMT -5
Hi. I am new to this forum-
Are you sure you are referring to coins of the Order of Malta? The SMOM currency is not the lira, that was the currency of Italy, San Marino and Vatican City State before the new Euro ( from 2002). But the coins you're referring to, as they are of 2004, can't be from these countries as now they use euro. So or they are not in lire or they are not real SMOM coins. Are they shown on a website?
Regards.
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Post by Richard C. on Mar 9, 2005 20:25:35 GMT -5
If I am correct in say this: The Lira is used in Turkey 'cause I have a 5 LIRA coin from Trukey.
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Post by shibolet on Mar 11, 2005 3:32:10 GMT -5
Richard: There have been coins in "Lira" value circulating for a number of countries in the past, including Turkey, Israel and Italy.
CEDRO: I've seen some of these so-called "Order of Malta" Lira coins in the past and even have a few in my collection. You are completely right in their not being official issues of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. The coins of the SMOM are in Scudi and Tari values.
As these Lira coins do not have a mint mark and there is no enclosed "certificate of authenticity" with name of issuer and adress enclosed, looking for the makers of these is turning out to be a major mystery.
The few leads we have on these coins go back to one of the unofficial British "Knights of Malta" (Hospitaller? / Johanniter?) order, although in the email contact I had with different chapters of the "Knights" in the past, they all disclaimed any knowledge of these coins.
My (temporary) conclusion is that until proven differently, these should be seen as fantasy issues, made solely for financial gain by a smart individual with a good business acumen (these babies sell very well...).
Maybe this is a challenge for our "coin detective""? Erik???
Shibolet
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Post by evm111 on Mar 11, 2005 10:44:36 GMT -5
Hi there!! I do have a couple of the Order of Malta coins, but I can't even remember what their denominations are; apart from just having those 2 coins in my collection to fill that "gap" (at least 1 SMOM coin is an essential part of any world collection...), but that's as far as my interest in them would take me. Would it be safe to say that they were probably minted in Europe, and if there is information on the Internet about the fantasy issues, it might be in Italian or German?
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CEDRO
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by CEDRO on Mar 11, 2005 18:53:32 GMT -5
For those interested the legitimate SMOM coins can be seen on their website: www.orderofmalta.org I've never seen or heard of the fantasy SMOM coins here in Europe.
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Post by George on Mar 14, 2005 22:44:38 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that one of the Russian "Orders of St John" has issued coins - I just can't remember where I read about it.
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Post by evm111 on Mar 28, 2005 15:23:19 GMT -5
Hi fellow members- here's the latest scoop on the LIRA denominations someone asked about. Turns out it is an altogether different order- maybe one of the other members knows the precise differences between them- called the Sovrano Ospedaliero Ordine di Malto, Sovereign Hospitalier Order of Malta. So this is not the SMOM we all know and love. This "new" entity started issuing coins in 1999 (colorized-decal coins like the Palau, Namibia ones). They now have quite a few coins devoted to Pope John Paul II. It looks like most of them are gold (?). I saw several on eBay's coin section by searching for "Malta Lira" and better yet "Malta Liras". About a handful of these coins are included in the upcoming UWC catalog, but from the looks of the ones I saw on eBay, there are more.
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Post by George on Mar 28, 2005 21:53:27 GMT -5
The SMOM is probably one of the most imitated chivalric orders in existence, and there have been a number of "false orders" of St John at various times. Such groups generally have longwinded titles that incorporate the term "St John" in them, but in reality they have no historic legacy or legitimacy at all.
The most well known of them is the British Order of St John, which was founded in the early 19th century by a group of confidence tricksters specifically to part fools from their money by doling out impressive-sounding knighthoods. Over time the group evolved into a genuine humanitarian organisation, attracted royal patronage and is now a respected global organisation known for delivering first aid and ambulance services.
As far as I'm aware the British order has never minted coins, but I believe the Russian "false order" may well have - and obviously the group Erik has identified has too. I'm sure there must be other undiscovered examples out there as well.
There are also lots of other "false orders" based on defunct mediaeval crusader orders, including various permutations of the Order of Saint Lazare, the Teutonic Order and of course the irrepressible Templars (cursed be that author of the Da Vinci Code!).
It is a fascinating field of study.
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Post by marc on Feb 24, 2007 16:53:26 GMT -5
i have a 1698 scudi,has castle turret with furrowed ground on one side ,and what appears to be some godess on other.please help me to identifie if correct and any information on it. thank you.
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Post by GILAD ZUCKERMAN on Apr 8, 2007 6:58:40 GMT -5
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Post by asimov on Jan 9, 2008 8:40:46 GMT -5
order of malta is loose terminology - 'smom' is just one of many branches
there are many valid orders of Malta as the order had the czar of Russia as grandmaster after it lost Malta, had already lost a large number of protestant nobles as sources of personnel, disappeared and fragmented (which is what saved it form persecution as the templars suffered, the latter, if at all, exist only more or less with vague names which do not indicate templar affiliation)
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Post by isaac on Jan 9, 2008 8:47:17 GMT -5
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Post by 1 scudi on Feb 1, 2008 12:15:01 GMT -5
Hello All: In the February pricelist of Lauren Benson there are a couple nice Order of Malta coins being offered; * NM18 25 Liras 2004 Pope John Paul II silver proof in capsule for $17.50 * NM19 500 Liras 2004 Pope John Paul II 14mm gold in capsule for $ 55 Although most of Mr. Benson's coins are of standard KM variety he does often have exceptional "unrecognised states" issues. For price list, his contact information is; Lauren Benson PO Box 9 Bettendorf, Iowa 52772 email; bensoncoins@revealed.net
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Post by GILAD ZUCKERMAN on Feb 8, 2009 15:23:46 GMT -5
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